I would just point out this neither unusual or unique to the US and appears to be a built-in human response which I’ve seen all over the world. That doesn’t mean he has to be glorified in 2019.

What education system? Globally, not just in the US. I can rationalize, to a point, how many things in the past were done and why (and, I acknowledge that values evolve). Well . Ideas do not have race, or gender, or language (though they can be about those things). You should try it sometime.
it was jarring not being pandered to at the level I have become accustomed to.

Moreover, Lee was loyal to Virginia – had Virginia been a Union state (or had he been born in a Union state), he would have fought for the Union. And that narrative has been, to date, constructed in a way that is all about Robin DeAngelo’s notion of White Fragility. If you were black, brown, red, yellow, gay, handicapped, uppity woman or recent immigrant you were excluded. That’s before to Dennis’ point that we need to address far more recent government programs at all levels that that led to defacto segregation (I cannot recommend the painful read “The Color of Law” by Richard Rothstein enough for a deep dive into how late into the 20th century — well past the 60s — Federal programs helped racially segregate the county and create the current income/achievement divide). The recent focus on removing CSA-related monuments doesn’t seem rooted in any particular strategy with a clear goal – it’s more a reaction to Charlottesville which, in turn, generated a counter-reaction.

i) None of the above No

That’s where I’ve long been on this. I understand the appeal of incrementalism, but I think we’re seeing it’s limits. rang loud and clear from Savannah to Maine"[1] The wiser of the radicals wanted nothing more than to dump the tea into the harbor, to avoid bloodshed, which they did successfully. The fourth is freedom from fear—which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor—anywhere in the world. This gets to a conversation I was having with @DrDaveT and others on the Puerto Rican statehood thread. And we acquiesce to this fear, even tho we know, we know that a very large percentage of them have no business being anywhere near a gun, that they are far more likely to shoot themselves or god forbid one of us than they ever are a “bad guy with a gun”.
So, to conclude, there is a lot of historical sin in this country. It is a historical accident that the country was founded by wealthy white male English-speakers. Are there some people who really do hate the country who live here? It makes all the difference in whether I agree with you or object strongly. But we agree that we tend to treat racial horrors as something that happened a long, long time ago. My point is now and how we address the past in the now. Levittown was a topic that was covered in history — heck it happened right down the road. What is true is that in each of those cases the majority culture dominates the minority culture economically, socially, and politically. @mattbernius:

The only exception seems to be Germany with its Nazi past. Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security. I do think that acculturation of immigrants should be the norm, the expected. Many, maybe most, of our politicians are not patriots; they are hustlers trying to manipulate us via emotions. When I finally accepted my own truth and recognized the shallowness of people who when they looked at me all they saw was all the things that weren’t them I said, “Fuck ’em.” and just became myself, not fitting in, saying all the wrong things at all the wrong times, pushing the bounds of acceptability, living my life the way I wanted to. And, yet, the American mythos is also based on welcoming immigrants into the melting pot, simultaneously assimilating them and absorbing bits and pieces of their cultures.

Within the law, taking care of my responsibilities, but living my life the way I wanted to.

Again, I’m broadly in agreement with Michta even while he, ironically, ensures that broad swaths of people will reject his argument precisely because his language and tone are so divisive. Say the thing everybody around you is thinking but are too polite to say (somebody will giggle). Fundamentally, the US is unlike most other countries because we are a political union, not a nation-state like France, Germany or Japan. They require loyalty to an Us and a willingness to defend it against all Thems. Some of us have given priority to a shared vision of secular democratic government, as embodied in various historical documents and their changing interpretations over time. In part as well we’re victims of our own success.

First, thanks as always for your thoughtful engagement. I think of all the forces of acculturation policy is the one with the least influence. And excused contemporaneously by the Supreme Court in what I consider arguably the most awful decision in Supreme Court history (worse than Dred Scot and at least as bad as Plessy v Ferguson). We’re coming up on 100 years since the Red Summer and the Sacking of Black Wall street, not to mention the institutionalization of red lining and restrictive covenants that prevented many minority families from owning homes and developing the inter-generational wealth necessary to wield economic power at the same rates as white families. And I think that’s where, if we are going to create a more sustainable ethos, we need to shift our views and pedagogy. HA! If you have to reach for a strawman to make your point, reach for one with heart. The Godfather and The Sopranos are pop cultural epics because we identify with the Them as much as we do with the Us.

Identified as related to American nationalism. And I agree with Dave that the measures that would be required to do the same in the United States would be, to say the least, uncomfortable. It’s also sad and telling that for a lot of people it’s easier to expand the definition of white than include non-whites in the definition of “all”. Time matters, as does pace. They play Fortnite and have Harry Potter toys and act exactly like ‘real’ American kids. Given that the writer, Michta, “is currently dean of the George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies” it’s pretty apparent that these Conservative think tanks no longer have the capability to be anyone’s “intellect for hire”, or even put so much as sheen of academia or rigor on anything. Lee also led a rebellion against his country. We do not have a national consensus on how to talk about the genocide we perpetrated against the natives of this continent, nor about slavery, Jim Crow, Japanese Internment, or even current attempts at voter suppression (and forget any discussion of the use of US military force, whether in the 19th Century in Latin America, or the drone wars of today). Forrest is irredeemable because of his founding of the KKK; one can nonetheless celebrate his acumen as a cavalry tactician but it’s hard to justify honoring him with statues and the like.

We even have a word to distinguish this feeling from the kind of ethno-nationalism more prevalent in Europe: Patriotism. American patriotism is rooted in conservative values which include honor, loyalty and bravery among others, thus Americans serving in the military and fighting in a war are regarded highly. Well, not anymore.

I think I’m more willing than you to rationalize some of these behaviors through cultural relativism.

Thanks for the recommendation. So, for example, we can and routinely do absorb lots of immigrants from China and India. Out of 300 plus million I am sure there are, but not many, especially if you ever actually ask them if they hate the country.

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